36. Podcasting Discoverability Strategies: Less Marketing and More Listeners! (POP: Speculative Fiction Writing Made Simple)

Do you wonder how to get your show discovered without turning into a 24/7 marketer? In this episode, I sit down with Heather Davis, host of the Speculative Fiction Writing Made Simple podcast, to dive deep into optimizing her show's visibility. We discuss the power of adding subtitles to episode titles, the importance of focusing on one primary keyword, and the crucial role of having polished cover art.

Listen to Speculative Fiction Writing Made Simple

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Transcript

Hey. Hey. And welcome back. Today, I have another pop episode for you. I've reviewed someone's podcast and have created a podcast optimization plan to make their podcast pop. If you're a current or aspiring podcaster, listen in as a fly on the wall for our conversation. I guarantee that you'll find something of value in this episode that you can apply to your current or future podcast. And if you'd like to chat with me about how we can make your podcast pop, you can schedule your own free call with me at the podcast teacher.com /pop. Today, I'm chatting with Heather Davis, host of the speculative fiction writing made simple podcast. And we're talking about how to get more people to discover her show organically without a lot of marketing efforts. If that sounds like something that you want too, keep listening.

Julia Levine:
Well, let's jump in and talk about your podcast. So first of all, congratulations on getting it up and running. And I was able to listen to a couple episodes, and I just wanna start out by saying that I think that your audio quality and your content are both fantastic.

Heather Davis:
Oh, thank you.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. So those are, you know, not small feats. So fantastic job there. So because your content is really good, really helpful, you know, giving tangible tips and practical advice. I think that your biggest problem with growing is probably related to discoverability, people either finding your show and or, people choosing your show from the list of results. For sure. So I have a 3 step plan that I created for you, and I can send you a few notes after this call as well. Yeah.

Heather Davis:
I've got my pen and paper here though.

Julia Levine:
Yes. What whatever works for you. Yeah. So the first thing is that your title is great. It has, you know, keywords in there. It's fantastic. I would love to expand that even further and take it up another notch and add a subtitle. Okay.

Julia Levine:
And so what I'm trying to accomplish with adding the subtitle is just getting more keywords in there. So if someone is searching speculative fiction writing, like, you're the first result. For fiction writing, you're in, like, at the top 15 or top 20 somewhere in the results on my search, which is great.

Heather Davis:
Oh, good.

Julia Levine:
But, you know, people may just be searching writing. They may be searching how to write a book. They may be searching, you know, publishing a book, things like that. So I would love to see some kind of subtitle that gets more keywords in there. And kind of the simple draft I just came up with off the top of my head was how to write, edit, and publish a book.

Heather Davis:
That's so funny because that's exactly what's in part of my, like, you know perfect. Yeah.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. Yeah. That's that's where I grabbed that from from your intro. And I know you use the word novel a lot, so this may come down to your audience and kind of if there's a way to fit in the words both book and novel in the subtitle, that would be ideal. But, you know, if you can't fit both because it's

Heather Davis:
Yeah. I think, honestly, more writers, you know, as someone internal to the field, I know that a book is typically nonfiction and a novel is typically fiction, but I don't think even most people who are writing novels get that. So I think maybe book is the better way to go because if anyone who's writing something, I'm like, I'm writing a book. I mean, technically, it's novel, but I'm writing a book.

Julia Levine:
So Yeah. Well, in the couple episodes that I listened to in particular, it kind of seemed like you were talking to someone who is kind of further in their journey of writing this novel, that maybe they've already taken a class, they've already started writing. So they're not they're not brand new. Like, they just woke up one day and are like, I think I might write a book.

Heather Davis:
They're frustrated. They've done all the things and and none of that stuff has worked because I want the people who are ready for a more intensive coaching program, where they're like, I've tried all the do it your self stuff, and I know I need an authority to help me do this now.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. So if you're talking to people who are already kind of in the field, they may be more likely to search novel because they're further in their journey.

Heather Davis:
Right.

Julia Levine:
So give them a little thought. Again, if you can put both words in there somehow, I you know, I'll I'll leave that to you to wordsmith. That would be ideal. Gotcha. Yeah.

Heather Davis:
Now when you say put a a, like, a a second part to it, does that go on the, like, little clip art or does that go somewhere else? Because I remember listening to a podcast episode of yours once where you talked about, and I'm like, I have no idea where that goes.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. Yeah. So that's a common question, and it I refer to it as a subtitle or sometimes a title extension just to clarify that we're not renaming your podcast and you don't have to say the whole big long thing Mhmm. When someone asks you what your podcast is or in your intro. The only thing we're doing is adding those words into your title field. So in the back end of Buzzsprout where it has the name of your podcast Gotcha. You're just

Heather Davis:
field.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. You're just putting those extra words in there. Perfect. And it's purely for the robots, for the search. So you don't have to say it. You don't have to put it on your cover art, anything like that.

Heather Davis:
Okay. That clarifies. Thank you so much. Okay. Yes. Absolutely. I can do that.

Julia Levine:
Good. Great. Alright. And kind of along the same lines, my second tip for you is to focus on one primary key word. And this word, it might be writing. That seems to be, you know, a really all encompassing term. Right. So when we're focusing on this one primary keyword, we want it to be a fairly broad term, and we want to use that term over and over and over and over in your episode, episode titles.

Julia Levine:
Okay. In titles. Gotcha. Yes. So you already have that word in your show title, which is fantastic writing. And so just the because the more times it appears within your content, the higher the algorithm is going to display you in the search results. And so, you know, right now, if I search writing, you know, if I search fiction writing, you're in the top 15, 20, like I said. But if I just search writing, you know, you're pretty far down the list.

Heather Davis:
For sure. Yeah.

Julia Levine:
I would love to get you bumped up, because then if people are searching writing tips or, you know, writing strategies or whatever they're typing in, you're capitalizing on that one broad word of writing

Heather Davis:
That makes

Julia Levine:
perfect sense. In whatever they're typing in.

Heather Davis:
It's funny. I'm always trying to think of names, like title names for the thing, like 3 this or 5 that or how to the other that I never really thought about. Like, you know what I mean? That sometimes, the titles wouldn't necessarily on their own let anyone know exactly what the episode is about. As far as that it's writing, you know, that big umbrella category. Okay.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. Well and it's challenging because you're writing the episode titles for humans and you're writing them for the robots. Yeah. So it's a delicate balance of putting keywords in there to please the robots and make sure you come up in the search algorithm, but also not being so boring and formulaic that, you know, it's not exciting, not enticing for someone to click play on. So it's a balance. So but, you know, going forward, obviously, keep that in mind, but you can also go back and change some of your past titles. And I would love to suggest that you do this by kind of adding on a second part, almost like a subtitle of the episode title. Uh-huh.

Julia Levine:
So for your most recent episode, that's, you know, the timeline for crafting a solid debut novel, you could add on to the end of that writing tips for your first book.

Heather Davis:
You know. Brilliant. I hadn't even thought of that. I guess I keep I don't know. I don't know what I keep doing, not thinking that well through it.

Julia Levine:
Well and again, you know, it's it's a balance, and it's hard to kind of break out of that, especially when you're more of the creative type that, you know, it's just like, oh, I don't want to have to be confined by the keywords.

Heather Davis:
Yeah.

Julia Levine:
But that is gonna help your podcast grow. So That

Heather Davis:
makes sense.

Julia Levine:
I like to tell, you know, other people that this is it's a balance. And sometimes you're gonna get that keyword in there. And if you get it in there, you know, 8 times out of 10 and the other 2, you're just having your fun creative day and it's a fabulous title for humans, that's fine. I'm not gonna fight you on that.

Heather Davis:
Gotcha. Okay. That makes sense. I will definitely do that from now on. Yep.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. Great. And then step 3 of the 3 part plan, is to see if you can redo your cover.

Heather Davis:
Okay.

Julia Levine:
I would suggest hiring a professional to do it. Okay. Because like with a book, the cover is someone's first impression. For sure. And as much as we don't want to think that we judge all of the beauty inside of a book based on one image on the cover, we do. And so I think that your, cover could benefit from a little polishing, a little more professionalism to reflect the caliber of expertise that you have. And then, you know, I love how your words, your title is very large, very easy easily readable font. Mhmm.

Julia Levine:
So, definitely, when you're communicating with someone, make sure and emphasize that you'd like to keep that aspect of it. And then I know you have that little, like, fountain pen icon thing on there. I'd love to see something that's a little more concrete imagery. So maybe like a stack of books or

Heather Davis:
Gotcha.

Julia Levine:
You know, a literal pen in someone's hand, you know, kind of writing across paper type of thing. It took me a couple to figure out what that little icon was.

Heather Davis:
Gotcha.

Julia Levine:
And so, obviously, if we're spending a few minutes looking at it, that's fine. But when most people are making a instant snap decision, we want it to be immediately in their face like a stack of books. This podcast is about books, writing a book.

Heather Davis:
Perfect sense. Yeah. And do you have suggestions or, like, a reference list of people, like, to hire for this type of thing or a place where you would suggest that I go where I could find, you know, quality people for not an extraordinary price?

Julia Levine:
Yeah. So there's one designer in particular that I think would work really well with your particular style. Mhmm. And that is Jenny. Her website is jennihdesign.com, And she has some examples on her site there, which, again, just kind of the vibe I've gotten from your website, gotten from, you know, your current cover. I feel like she could create something that's still you Right. But has a little bit more polish professionalism in it. The other option that has been, somewhat successful for other students has been 99 designs.

Julia Levine:
They have a podcast cover design feature where basically you you put in kind of what you're wanting in the cover and then different people almost, like, bid on the project. Mhmm. And so then you kind of get to choose and go from there. I haven't done that myself, but I've heard good things about the results because you get multiple options.

Heather Davis:
Oh, that's neat.

Julia Levine:
Okay. So this would be my two places to start.

Heather Davis:
Perfect. Thank you. Yes. I've got those up right now, so I won't lose them.

Julia Levine:
Okay. Fantastic. So, yeah, those are kind of the the main three things that I would suggest doing because I think that, you know, coming up sooner in the search results, getting the algorithm to display you in the search results sooner is going to help. And then revamping the cover when you are in that list of results, you know, people are more likely to click on your show. And I'll throw you one bonus tip, is that you may wanna consider looking at overcast, Overcast dot f m. They have where you can purchase podcast ads on their platform. And I don't really recommend this for everyone because some of the ad categories are extremely expensive.

Heather Davis:
Mhmm.

Julia Levine:
But they have a, a category of fiction. And so these are people that are interested in fiction podcasts. And then, you know, it's not too much of a leap to think that they may be interested in starting their own book Right. Novel. And so having your advertisement on a podcast that they're listening to and what this is is just like a little banner that appears at the top of their their their podcast player. And so it'll display your cover art. So definitely revamp the cover art before you get to this For sure. But then it also you have, like, a sentence of, like, a little, like, tagline that basically tries to get people to click on that ad and to come and listen to your show.

Julia Levine:
And so they have a fiction category. Each ad runs for 30 days. And right now, the fiction category, the prices fluctuate based on demand and time of year and all that stuff. But they're, right now, it's a $160 for 30 days

Heather Davis:
Oh, awesome.

Julia Levine:
Which, you know, is not not bad. And, that could be a way to cut jump start kinda get the ball rolling a little bit. Yeah. And then word-of-mouth hopefully can help facilitate even further growth.

Heather Davis:
Yeah. I mean, I have had steady growth. I'm getting, like, anywhere between 80 a120 downloads in the first 7 days of you know, and that's up from, like, 31 the first. So it's been very slow, though. You know? And I'm like, ah, yeah. So I definitely will do that. Absolutely. I didn't even know that you could I mean, I guess I knew you could purchase podcast ads, but I'd read about it before, and I was like, it it seemed more intensive than this does.

Julia Levine:
So there are a lot of different options for ads. Like I said, this one's like a a visual banner that appears at the top. And so there are ads where, you know, you verbally record something, and it gets inserted in someone's podcast. You can do Facebook ads. Like, there's all sorts of different ad options. Overcast is a nice place to start because it's super simple, super straightforward, and easy. There's not really any strategy that needs to go into it.

Heather Davis:
Right now at this level in my ability. I need straightforward, easy, and just like

Julia Levine:
Yeah.

Heather Davis:
Yes.

Julia Levine:
Yeah. So how do all those steps sound to you? Does that feel good? Feel doable?

Heather Davis:
It feels very good and very doable and definitely things that I wouldn't have thought of doing. So I think and and they're they're simple enough that it doesn't feel overwhelming to go implement them. Thank you so much, Julia. You are brilliant at what you do, and I appreciate you so much.

Julia Levine:
Thank you. That means a lot. Alright. That's all for today. If you'd like to chat with me about how we can make your podcast pop, you can schedule your own free call with me at the podcast teacher.com/pop. Until next week, happy podcasting.